S1E9 Giant Robot with Eric Nakamura

In this captivating episode, we delve into the rich tapestry of Asian American art and identity, exploring the journey of Eric Nakamura, the visionary behind Giant Robot. From his rebellious beginnings as a zine creator to establishing a cultural hub that fuses Asian American identity with punk rock culture, Eric shares his inspiring story of family heritage and creative passion. The discussion highlights the evolving perceptions of Asian Americans in art and entertainment, noting a shift from stereotypes to a broader acceptance of diverse talents. We celebrate the rise of Asian American artists and their impact on the art scene, featuring dynamic talents like James Jean and Mike Shinoda. Through engaging narratives and personal anecdotes, this episode offers a vibrant exploration of artistic expression, cultural narratives, and the power of community in shaping a creative legacy.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Robot_(magazine)#:~:text=Giant%20Robot%2C%20named%20after%20the,technology%2C%20food%2C%20and%20skateboarding. 

ABOUT US

Welcome to "Japanese America," where the Japanese American National Museum unveils captivating stories that add a Nikkei slant to the American narrative. In each episode, we explore Japanese Americans' unique experiences, challenges, and triumphs, illuminating their rich contributions to the mosaic of American life. From historical milestones to contemporary perspectives, join us for an insightful journey showcasing the diverse tapestry of a community that has shaped the American story in extraordinary ways.  Welcome to "Japanese America," where each story unfolds like a chapter in a living history book.

For more information about the Japanese American National Museum, please visit our website at www.janm.org. 

CREDITS

The music was created by Jalen Blank

Written by Koji Steven Sakai

Hosts: Michelle Malazaki and Koji Steven Sakai

Edited and Produced by Koji Steven Sakai in conjunction with the Japanese American National Museum

Transcript

0:00

Michelle, who are your favorite artists and why? Well, there are many artists that I like, but I especially like Tadanori. Yokoo. Do you know him? Yes. Yeah, he's my favorite. When I was growing up, I thought he's like Andy Warhol of Japan. Or even better now. Now I think about his. Even better. What do you like about it? I like his graphic art and then like his Indian influence on his art. And he also does like painting. And he goes back to the same scenery, the triangular shaped building or like a triangular, not building, triangular street alley. And he just keep on doing the same scenery, I like that. My favorite artist is Vincent van Gogh. I know that sounds cliche, but I like the cornfield ones and some of his starry nights and stuff. I don't know why. That was probably when I was a kid. That was the art that I seemed to resonate first and most with. I remember my mom and my dad used to take me to museums all the time, and I just felt like they weren't interesting to me. Especially like the Christian, like, you know, angels and. Yeah. Those things that wasn't interesting at all. But that was the first time. It was really interesting. Where are you going to say? I think the Van Gogh has, like, terrible eyesight because how I that's how I see stuff without my glasses. And he's just trying to, you know, make it look like how he's seen it. Which is then beautiful. Oh, yeah, I guess. Welcome, welcome, welcome to episode eight of the Japanese America Podcast. My name is Koji, and I am one of your hosts. And I'm Michelle. I can't believe it's October already. What are you going to be for Halloween? I never dress up for Halloween. What? I don't think I've dressed up since, like, second grade. There's two kinds of people in the world. There's people that love to get dressed up. And there's people that hate to get dressed up. I'm the hate to get dressed up. But you're Japanese. You must love cosplay. Oh, really? What are you going to be when you grow up? Or when? Sorry, not when you grow up. What are you going to be for Halloween? Be when I grow up? When I grow up, I'm going to be a golfer. I don't know, I, I love wearing stuff that's not, I don't know, I wear stuff that's not too much but a little bit different. I showed up as a soccer referee because I had that outfit for being a referee, and then I have this stupid wig that I put on and I just look silly because. We were talking earlier before we started recording, and I was at Disneyland with my family on Monday for a random school holiday, and I saw a bunch of families who wear the same stuff, and all I could think was like, they all wear the same shirt or clothes or something, and all I could think of. I've never been in a family that all would dress dressed alike. Like Christmas pictures. Yeah, I've never done that. The pajamas. Sweater. Yeah. I've never. I've never been in that family. Like, my my original family that I grew up in. Definitely didn't do that. Um, and my current family would never do that. So I was kind of like, maybe I want to be in this family, I don't know. Would your family all dress up alike? No. No, no. And then my. I don't think my daughter would like to dress up in a same outfit as I do. She's like, ah, no. Yeah. I would never want to. I mean, I never wanted to get dressed up anyway, so I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to be dressed up for like, Family pictures in America. You try to like you have a theme. Yeah. Like a blue theme. And people were, like, black checkered shirt. And then like that were black. So I don't like matching outfit. Like. We were when. We were at Disneyland. We were getting our pictures taken by the magical Disney people, and one of the families in front of us was all wearing the same Halloween pajamas or some kind of Halloween clothes, and they looked really cute and they look like a cute family, but I couldn't imagine being in that family. Maybe it's an Asian thing. Yeah, also like maybe not so much in 2020 four in Japan. But growing up, I never really smiled. Like I never show my teeth when I took pictures, so I don't know, It wouldn't work. Yeah. If you're angry looking. Yeah. Whatever. Um, let's ask a question about Halloween. I mean, how do you feel about dressing up as a geisha? I think when you say geisha in America, I think you mean oilan. That's the oilan and geisha. And Oilan is like a high ranking courtesan. And they dress up like, you know, they have Japanese hairdo, but, like, funky hairdo. And they have, like, bold kimono with huge Obi tie in front. Yeah. I want to be that. And geisha is like, you have to train to be a geisha. I don't have time for that. Sorry. As a Japanese person, do you think it's offensive? I don't know if I could be a cowboy or a cowgirl. I guess you could be a geisha. I don't know. I mean, as long as you don't have bad intentions. Like, I don't want to dress up as a cowgirl and shoot people. That's not right. Right. So if you don't do anything offensive with that outfit, it should be okay. Do you think you could dress up as an African American princess? Uh, no, but I went to a wedding, uh, Vietnamese wedding, and they told me to wear a Vietnamese outfit, and it was okay. But that's different, though. Well, it's kind of. To me, it was like a cosplay. I mean, I think that's a little bit different because you're at the wedding. They're asking you to do it. My daughter and I were like, is that like cultural appropriation? I mean, if they ask you, that's different. I mean, as part of a ceremony or something, I think that's. I mean, I think going to a Halloween party. And as a geisha, but like, I think geisha in America are like, thought to be like a. Prostitute. Prostitute. Not. That's not. No, no. The right information. So we got to fix that. I mean, but at the same time, I. There's no offense if a guy, if a kid wanted to be like a samurai. Yeah, That's not the same. But I think it's probably because of. I mean, if he can dress up as samurai or ninja, but just don't hurt anybody. That's the thing. Like, I mean, I think it has probably something to do with the fact that Asian women are seen as geishas, right? Like the stereotype of the prostitute is probably what it is, because, I mean, nobody associates Japanese men with, you know, like samurai in that in the same way. Well, but when I came to visit America for the first time, I went to Missouri, like Ozarks of Missouri. Maybe that's why. But this kid asked me, are is your dad a samurai? I'm like, ah, no. I asked him, like, uh, is your dad a carpenter? Because I used to watch little House on the Prairie, and my dad's a carpenter. Jesus Christ. His dad's a carpenter. Although the funny thing with Japanese Americans is that if you talk to almost every single one of them and you ask them about their family in Japan, almost everyone says that their samurai family. And I'm like, not everyone could be a samurai family. Uh, it's been a while when the last samurai passed away. Yeah, but everybody single one is like, oh, I'm a samurai family. I'm like, but if everyone was a part of the samurai family, then it wouldn't be special. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, somebody is gonna be a Shogun. Well, and somebody has to be a peasant. Yeah. Or the merchant. Or a merchant or. I mean, yeah. Oh, and then I did dressed up in Japanese outfit just for the pictures for wedding. Yeah. And, oh, my gosh, the kimono was so heavy. And the wig was, like, so, so hurtful. I only wore it for like 30 minutes for the pictures, but. For the 18 year old one or. No, it's for the wedding picture. A wedding picture? Yeah. And then I made my white husband wear the kimono, too. And it was too short for him. Did he like it? Did I like it? No. Did he like it? Well, I already prepaid for the picture. I'm like, hey, you gotta you gotta do that picture. But it took me like, two hours to get ready. It took him, like, ten minutes to get ready. Yeah, there's not that much that the Japanese has. The guy has to do. Yeah, Right. It's pretty easy. But for in Japan, though, you take a picture at 18, right? Girls, take a picture. Oh, yeah. 20. Is it 20? Yeah. Seijinshiki. When you become an adult. Yeah. At 20. 20. Oh, wow. Why not 18? Because until a few years ago, the age. How do you say adult? Yeah. Age was 20. Oh, really? And then it was lowered to 18. So you can vote now as an 18 year old, but you cannot drink the 20. Oh, wow. Okay. Just like here. Just like you could do everything except for drinking till 21, Which is weird. Yeah. Like why? Yeah. I mean, you could fight and die for the country, but you can't drink. I think that's a, I don't know, conspiracy. That's. This is the wrong podcast. This is the wrong podcast. This is where we look at all things Japanese American. We will bring alive the history, culture and people that make up the diverse community. If you like the podcast, please share it with your friends, family, and your enemies. You'll be doing a lot to help us keep bringing exciting and fun content every month. In this month's episode, we are talking Art. We brought in guest Eric Nakamura, who is the founder of the seminal magazine Giant Robot. Giant robot, named after the Japanese TV series Giant Robo, was initially created as a small, punk minded magazine that featured Asian pop culture and Asian American alternative culture, including such varied subject matter as history, art, music, film, books, toys, technology, food and skateboarding. The publication grew from its original format a small photocopied zine folded and stapled by hand to its eventual full color format. In the early days, Wong and Nakamura independently approached bookstores and music shops to ask if they would carry the magazine. In 2003, the magazine could be found at Barnes and Noble, Tower Records, Virgin Stores, Borders and UCLA Ackerman Union, amongst other locations. In 2004, there were 60,000 copies in circulation annually. We got all this information from Wikipedia. The link will be in our show notes. The last issue of Giant Robot came out in February of 2011, but it continues to live online, as well as at the store and gallery on Sawtelle here in Los Angeles. Michelle, have you been to the store? No, I've driven by so many times. You've never been in? No. Oh my goodness. I know. You have to go. I have to go. Okay. I went online and I have to buy this hoodie. Okay. So cute. Well, they have my Melody one. It's like Sanrio hoodies. And you have to go to the gallery. I know, I know, I love going to galleries. Yeah. There are two great stores. There are two stores and they're basically like half a block from each other on Sawtelle. I love Sawtelle. They have such good food. Yeah. Well, people called it Little Osaka. First, let's get to know Eric a little bit. Eric, tell us about yourself and the history of Giant Robot. So I guess I started Giant Robot in 1994, and it was started off as, like, a hobby. Didn't really have too much plans for it, but I think it was just a hobby to get it something going. I think it was just the excitement of doing a zine, but I think I've always liked publishing. It was something that I always wanted to be part of. I worked at Larry Flynt Productions as a writer right after college. I'm a horrible writer at that time. I'm still not that good, but I was horrible at that time. But somehow I got a job doing it. And I think that's kind of what got me excited about publishing, because I've always wanted to be part of that. But maybe at Larry Flynt, I think I just got to see everything being done, how it's done with like a very minimal staff and what that's like. And I think that's kind of what got it going. But, um, you know, like before that, you know, like, I think I was always wanting to draw like comics, for example, and publish a comic, right? That was something I always wanted to do. So I think I was doing that as a kid. Um, and then I would always make, like, little, you know, like, you get a few pieces of paper and you fold them and it becomes like a book. I think I was doing that a lot as a little kid. So it was kind of like something that just, you know, it just kind of went on and on. Oh, and if I go further back, I made a zine, I think I was in junior high and I made like what was a zine at my Japanese school, which was kind of troublesome. It was like about the school and about stuff, and it was me rebelling against it. And uh, which was pretty bad. Like, I shouldn't have did that ultimately. And I never got caught, I don't think. But if I got caught, I probably wouldn't be able to, you know, I'd been kicked out, probably. And that's one less student for them and one less amount of tuition for them, which was actually very cheap, you know what I'm saying? I don't know, I don't know if I got caught and they just didn't tell me and didn't want to do anything or what I mean, but I don't know. I didn't think it was it wasn't illegal. So. Oh well. Next, whenever we chat with JAs, one of the first questions we ask is always about camp. Eric is too young to have been in camp, obviously, but we asked him which camp his parents were in, So my mother didn't go to a camp because she's from Japan and she moved here at, I think, in 1955, maybe from Japan. So she was born in 1940, which is probably not the best time to be born, but she can't do anything about that. And my father went to Poston, so he was in Poston three, the third, the third camp there. Typical. He never talked about it or not. Didn't talk too much about it, but he was kind of young at the same time. Right. So I think he was probably eight, nine and 10 or 9, ten and 11 kind of that age while he was there. So I'm sure his experience is a lot different than someone who was 18 or 20 or so. I'm sure it's a little different of an experience, but he didn't talk about it much, but he did remember it decently. We went to one of the pilgrimages maybe six years ago or something. I'm kind of guessing, and all he wanted the whole time was to see Poston three, but they didn't even take us there. So we actually after it was done, we drove to Poston three and it's just like farm. I think they were growing cotton or something right there. And we just kind of looked at that and he remembered stuff like, there was a river. I think it's the Colorado River, perhaps. I think it's right there. That kind of runs through it. And we drove. And then he looked around and says, I don't remember this spot. So but he remembers walking to it, which was kind of far, actually. I mean, you know, whatever, a mile or two. But he remembers fishing and all this stuff. But he said he didn't remember the place we went, But he thinks it was must have been just upstream or downstream. But that was like, you know, a big part of the trip was he just wanted to see that so bad. And, uh, but yeah, there's just no real markers or anything there. It's just a farm. Eric, how did Giant Robot get started? Well, so Giant Robot is a zine. How does it get started? I think it's just an idea. I was just thinking, okay, I think for, well, in very Asian American style, basically, I saw what was out there. It was other Asian American magazines. And then there's punk rock magazines, which I liked. But the Asian American magazines I thought were just not not for me. Right? They were they just were definitely not for me. It felt like they were for maybe a select group, maybe like people that would be in an Asian American fraternity. Or maybe if you were a doctor, lawyer or something like that, maybe these are the magazines you would buy. It was just all based on, I thought more of like success. Or maybe there was some elements of cars and partying or something. And I just thought, okay, these are definitely not for me, you know? And I was looking at something that was a little more real. And what was for the a maybe somewhat regular person or if not the outcast, right. Which I thought I was the outcast. So it's kind of like that. So I decided, okay, I'm just going to make something that I would want that's more in my, you know, that's in more of my life and maybe the intersections of my friends, too. And I think that was kind of where it all starts. It becomes just an idea. And of course, then I, you know, started just figuring out what am I going to do, who's going to be part of it, who wants to be part of it? It's one of those things. Sometimes you can't be picky about such things. You just kind of go with it. But the zine was not meant to be really tiny, right? I think the first issue was like, I think it's 68 pages or something. So the idea is for it to be substantial because I wanted to sort of compete with what was out there. I mean, those magazines were under 100 pages. So I figure, okay, I'm going to make something that's as substantial as a magazine that's going to be in a form of photocopies. In 1994, when Giant Robot launched, it was in the middle of an Asian American movement. We asked Eric about the world of Asian Americans back then. Yeah, Asian Americans in 94. I can't say I was an expert in it, but I mean, everyone's going to be different. So our experiences are different. But I think I didn't quite hang out with Asian Americans at the time. I had some Asian American friends, I guess, but it was just no, it was pretty mixed. And I went to UCLA after I went to Santa Monica College. So Santa Monica College, there are Asian students there, but not a lot because it's junior college, right? Asian Americans go to the best schools for free, right? We don't. It's like how it works. I didn't make it. So I go to UCLA and I'm like, oh, there's a lot of Asian American students here. Here's where they are. And then I but I didn't. I mean, I wanted to join at UCLA. They had a newspaper called Pac Ties, Pacific ties. Didn't I? Don't I mean, I had photography experience, like, a lot. And I didn't get into that. I didn't join any Asian American clubs, I guess, or groups. Student groups. And I tried to join the Nikkei Student Union, but it just didn't feel right. And it wasn't for me because once I started, I talked to some folks there who wouldn't pass me a flyer. By the way, that was part of the funniest thing. I'd walk down Bruin Walk and they're passing out flyers for an event, and I could see them passing out flyers. I walk up, no their hands go down. There are no flyer for me. Literally happened more than one time. It happened over and over and I'm like, why don't I get a flyer? Like, it's just so weird. And that was an Asian American student group, right? And I thought, oh, wow, I'm definitely an outcast. They don't even want to invite me to anything. And then when I tried to join in, I think it's the Nikkei Student Union. It just didn't feel right. I think I spoke to somebody, they were nice, but I think it just what they were into wasn't resonating, and they started asking me questions like, oh, do you hang out with the folks in Gardena? And I'm like, what folks in Gardena? Like, I don't know what you're talking about. So it was kind of like that, you know? And I'm like, no, I don't. And, you know, like, I just didn't fit into any of their questions they asked. I was kind of like, no, I don't fit into that. I don't know your friends in Gardena. I don't go to these parties that happened in Torrance or whatever, right? I just didn't do those things. Um, back in the day. So I just didn't have a meeting point for them that made me. I don't feel like I belong there or would get along with people. So no, I didn't join any of that. That's a that's, to me, part of what I experienced in Asian America. And then a little bit I did meet or who I did meet. There were some Asian American people in punk rock. I mean, a little bit right there was Martin was Martin Wong is he was into it. Although he was uh, we didn't quite go to school at the same time. I would see him at the, at punk rock shows. Right. Just indie rock, punk rock shows, whatever it is. The other Asian American guy that's there, you know? Of course you you sort of sit there and you go, oh, fuck that guy. No, but really, no. We ended up being friends. So he ends up, you know, also joining Giant Robot and, um, we move on. But there was other there were a few others too, but it was all like, maybe you can count them on your hands. Like how many? You might see three. It was so few. And then they ironically, at the time, we all had long hair, like grungy long hair. And, uh. So of course I get confused for Martin. Martin had a twin brother, also with long hair, so I get confused for his brother Greg. And then there was a third or fourth guy named Duke. And Duke was from Orange County. He too had long hair. Right. So that's four Asian American dudes with long hair. And we get confused for each other all the time. And it was like I was like, oh, that's what it's like to be Asian America or Asian American in, um, indie rock and punk rock, it's like the same thing. It doesn't change. Koji, what was it like being Asian American in the 90s, and how is it different today? Well, one of the big changes, I think, is that back in the 90s, Asian Americans were seen as only being good at math and science and computers and nerdy. And I think that one of the big changes now is that even though those things obviously still persist, I think that it's a lot less that people see Asian Americans being cool sometimes even, you know, like the K-pop stars are cool. Shohei Ohtani is cool. You know, there are actors that are cool movies and food in the 90s. If you brought sushi to school, they would think that you're, you know, weird or they wouldn't understand why you would eat raw fish. But now, like, the kids want to eat sushi. And so I think it's very, very different. I was talking to Eric about this, but, you know, me and my son, we watched a documentary about Michael Chang, the tennis player, and it was interesting because, you know, all the comments about Michael was how small he was and how they weren't sure if he could compete with the Caucasian American tennis players. And and that's just different now. I don't think that there's that same, you know, that same thing. And one of the changes that, you know, Eric and I talked about a little bit was that when I was going to the writing program at USC, there just weren't a lot of Asian Americans or Asians or Japanese Americans in these in the school I was at, it just wasn't a thing that they that they were pushing their kids to. And I think the 90s was that beginning of like, it's okay not to be a lawyer. It's okay not to be a doctor. It's okay not to own a business that you could do art, that you could do film, you could be a comedian, you know, you could do all those things. So I think that's one of the big changes from the 90s. When did you come to the United States? I came here in 88. How did I miss this 1994 Asian American movement? I'm missing a lot of things in America. And actually, one of the things that for film in 97 was this big movement around Asian American film. So before 97, there were obviously Asian American movies, but a lot of those movies were just like people just putting it in movies together. 97 was kind of this new movement where they were film school students who were creating professional looking movies with professional actors and professional crews that were Asian American. So people like Justin Lin, who did Better Luck Tomorrow and Fast and Furious. Quentin Lee, you know, John Cho was an actor in some of these movies. And, you know, a lot of these movies were kind of the first, like Asian-American movie, you know, that we could make movies that are professional looking and that are compete with other movies. So this was a really, really interesting and actually one of the movies Eric Nakamura wrote, it's called sunsets. Wow. A few years ago, I went to see a casting director and we spent like a whole day and he liked my stuff, but he's like, oh, Michelle, give up because that's yeah, acting. There's nothing for you in Hollywood. You could only be a Chinese laundry lady, and I'm not even Chinese. Wait. When did. When was this? It was like a few years ago. That's stupid. He's like, that's not a that's not a main role. Was this person old? He's like me, a little bit older than me, but like, I'm like, okay, That's something from like the 80s. I know, I know, but like, he told me that in like a few years ago. I mean, you know, when I was starting in entertainment, there was a lot less Asian Americans. And now, you know, there's much more Asian Americans. My joke with people, when I talk about, you know, growing up Asian American, is that the only people that were Asian American were porn stars or like Mr. Miyagi, you know, or, um, and that was fine. Mr. Miyagi is fine. I have no problems with it. But it was a lot of stereotypes. It's a lot of funny accents, you know? There wasn't Asian Americans who sounded like me, and that was one of the 97 1997 movement was that you had lead actors who were Asian American, who spoke normal English without an accent, and who grew up here and whom, you know, I could relate to. Eric, how has Giant Robot evolved over time? How does Giant Robot evolve? I mean, it starts off as a zine, but I think I mean, I have like, I suppose, an entrepreneurial family. I mean, my mom owned a restaurant. My dad, well, my dad was a father, was a contractor. But before that, he owned a restaurant. Before that, he. A small right. Like a small restaurant. Like a a bowl takeout type of thing. And then, um, before that, he was a mechanic, like an auto mechanic. So, I mean, I think that's sort of like this. I grew up around, like, my father and mother, but they kind of can do a lot of different things. You know, they had like multiple skill sets. And I think that's where I kind of start doing multiple things. Like I do photography, I learn to write, I start doing graphics. I, you know, like I started opening shops, galleries, all, you know, it's it becomes like this thing where I kind of have a lot of tools, I guess, in my toolbox type of thing. But I think it's just from all of that, that I think Giant robot sort of gets to grow a little more because I, you know, I'm looking at, okay, I'm going to improve this, improve that and just keep, keep going. And I didn't have a lot of help. I mean, just at the very beginning, it was just really me because I was the one doing the layout, getting everything done, photocopying it like going through all the motions. But as I improved, I think so does Giant Robot. I mean, of course it improves, paper improves. You know, all of a sudden it's advertising a little bit in there and just you start adding it all up. There's gradual improvements. There was no giant leap at one time. I would say it was small, gradual improvements over. I would say it takes I mean five years. You get to you get to like issue. I don't know what that is. Issues 8 or 9 or something like that. In five years. Maybe it's issue 10 in 5 years, or maybe it's a little more issue 12, something like that. And but that that improvement is very gradual at this, you know, and then I feel like even at issue 12, for example, we're not even close because then issue 18 has a big remarkable change. You know, there's a new designer in it. It looks really amazing at that point. So it just it takes a long time. And at the same time you're realizing, okay, there's not a dollar to be made here. It's like you can't make money publishing a magazine. Exactly. It's just really difficult. You need to have ancillary income. So that means making products and selling products. And that meant opening shops. And then from there it's like, okay, you know, I get into art and it's opening art galleries and it's like, okay, how about another shop in San Francisco? And how about one in New York? And then how about a restaurant also on Sawtelle? And then how about one in Silverlake, a shop in Silverlake? But I mean, it just kind of starts growing and growing and growing. And then, um, I don't know, I just kind of me just keep wanting to push the boundaries and just keep going, not being satisfied with anything. And I just kept pushing and pushing like I was thinking, okay, I'm going to open one in Chicago. I was planning one in Japan. Like I was really going to just go for it and, you know, have like some nutty empire, right? That was sort of the plan. And then that bad economy period hits, which is like 2000, whatever, eight, nine, ten, etc. and that really hits retail hard. So that's where things have to pare down again. And then I have to relearn everything. And and then actually I get better as that, you know, through that I get even better in my opinion. Like way better. And then I just focus on the retail stores and, uh, Los Angeles that I have, right. The shop and gallery and those just become remarkably better, tenfold. I, you know, that's just kind of what giant robot does. And then it I, you know, looking back wise, I only look back at the I think I look back at the biggest problematic times, which is kind of the most kind of interesting and challenging and in a way fun. So I always look back at the tough ones. I mean, the good times, sure, whatever. I don't care as much, but it's mostly the bad times. I think that's just sort of the way I do things. It's just I like improvements, and I think that improvement thing for me is just to it just I keep striving to learn more, I think, and I still I'm still up for it. Like it's really interesting and fun for me. We asked Eric about some of the amazing artists that he worked with. Uh, one of them right now is Felicia Chow. I like working with her. She's amazing. I think I met her in 2018 and through that meeting she starts to pursue art more because she wasn't doing she wasn't an artist. I guess you would say she was just doing drawing in a sketchbook. Now she's like a career artist and just doing super well. And she just I think she's 31 years old, so she's young, but, you know, just think she was in her what, later mid 20s or something like that. When I meet her and you know she's just now just doing amazing. Um, but there's a ton of artists I work with. James Jean's a big name I work with sometimes, but at the same time, there's a ton who are just young and up and coming, and they're also equally fun to work with. So it doesn't really matter who. I guess in terms of like, I don't know, it's just more so in terms of their energies. And I think that's kind of the fun part. I mean, there's like one who I like working with. Her name is Kelly Yamagishi. She's amazing. Um, I like working with Edwin Ushiro, who's I think shown at JANM. Well, there's just a ton of artists who are always amazing to me, and I have a good time working with them. And most of them are like, have become like personal friends. So it's kind of nice to. And that I think all the artists together kind of formed this community around Giant Robot, which is kind of a really one of the best things, because the magazine also has its own or had its own community. Definitely. The gallery has has its own community, as does the shop. So I think that's just always interesting to see how these communities form. And that's, I think part of my career that's kind of inadvertent is the fact that I always start creating communities without really thinking about that at a time. It just sort of happens. And I don't know, that's just something that I end up doing, and I haven't really thought about that much, but I always realized there is something happening. What's the importance of Asian American art? That's multi-tiered because there's Asian American art that maybe is looked at, I don't know, historically, you know, there's like art that's been around for a long time. Art styles that have been around for a long time. But for me, I think there's an art style that's like an illustrative art that kind of wasn't considered art. I mean, it's always like, oh, that's illustration that doesn't count type of thing. And for me, I think that's a genre that I help build up. That illustration art or illustrative art is kind of my category. But that was once. Yeah, like a comic book artist who draws comics and then it turns into a comic book. Well, that original art would be considered garbage, right? That's like, that doesn't count. You throw that away. The final is the actual printed comic. That's what you look at. And for me, that art to me was very valuable. And I thought that was really amazing to look at. And I think then, okay, so then that exists. And then you have the Asian American group or subset within that, which surprisingly has become to me rather large. Like at first I thought, okay, there's a few Asian Americans doing art. And then I realized, no, there's actually a lot who want to do art, who are not encouraged to do art, and I'm encouraging them to do art and as a career, like, I think it can work. But I think again, that may be pre 90s, pre 90s. That was like a no no. Like like your parents are saying hell no. Art. No. Asian American parent. No. Tiger parent Tiger mom whatever it is. No. Art. You have to do something that's a real career. Whatever that means. And then you realize, like today, no, art is a career. It works. I think you can make more money than a doctor or a lawyer doing art. If you know you play your cards well. But if not, you can still do really well. I mean, you can do pretty well as a as an artist. It just depends on your business acumen and maybe your artwork counts too. But surprisingly, there's people that don't make the best art that have a great career, and there's people who who make great art that don't have a great career. So it's just a matter of figuring out what you're doing and how to make it all work. But yeah, Asian America never really fostered art as a career, but I think it's happening now. Maybe in the last I don't want to say 20 or wait since the 90s. 30 years. I don't want to say 30 years. I feel like probably within the last ten years, it's way more than it was ten years before that. Ten years before that, it was really small, like 90s to two 90s to 2000. I want to say it was just really minuscule, like that's still become a doctor or lawyer era, but it starts changing maybe ten years ago. What's the future of Giant Robot? The future of giant robot. Uh, everything's one day at a time for me still. I never really had plans, so this is way past, like. So. This is year 30, and I've never had plans for Giant robot. Like, here are the plans. Like, I didn't have that or a business plan or anything like that. So we're way past what I ever expected. Um, you know, this is like 25 years or 30 years. Well, technically 30, but, I mean, since I ever thought about it, this is like 25 years later of having no plans, right? So it's like it just keeps keeps going. And, uh. Yeah, I still don't have any plans. I don't know if that's kind of bad or not. I mean, I mean, yeah, I can say, hey, I'm going to do this next year in April or something, but I can't. I don't have like, oh yeah, four years from now, five years from now, what am I doing? Uh, we don't really have a plan with that at all, frankly. So I'm always up for whatever shows up, and that's kind of fun, right? Like, yeah, all of a sudden year 30 comes, and now we're releasing a we're going to release a book in October. Right. It's a big like what looks like a it's a coffee table book. Uh, that's like an anthology with like a history written and new comments and quotes and text. But it's like, that wasn't even a plan until early last year. You know, it wasn't even a plan. So now it's like a big deal, kind of because this book is actually published, uh, by, by another outside publisher, and they put a lot of resources into it. And it's going to be pretty nice I think. So that's kind of exciting, right? But that's again, wasn't planned exactly. It was just one of those things. On a whim, I was like, I'm just going to ask these guys if they want to, you know, it's called they're called Drawn and Quarterly. They publish Adrian Tomine's comics. And I just asked him, I go, hey, what do you think about a giant robot book? Like a big one? And they were just like, yes, yeah, we'd like to do that. And I was like, really? Okay. And then that opened a can of worms and it became a lot of work. And then, you know, here it is, it's it's coming up. It's in the same kind of way where it's like, I'll think of it and I'll just start doing it. But I'm not I'm not the best planner. Finally, what's some advice for Asian American artists? Don't don't listen to your parents. No. I'm kidding. I think now you still should listen. Uh, but I think I think you have, I think any, any many, many Asian American artists can make it. I think we're actually overrepresented in the art, in at least in my category of art. I think there's a lot of Asian Americans. So I think there's just a you have to find your community. You have to be able to promote yourself. You should learn how to explain what you're doing and your art. You shouldn't be afraid to branch out into other categories of art like illustration, making stuff, making products, going to, I don't know, like craft fairs or art markets and stuff like that. Um, showing your art around, stuff like that. And I think there's a little bit of an infrastructure for Asian American artists out there in terms of like, support more than you would think. And I think that's kind of important. But I think there at all levels, I mean, they're in they're in like institutional levels. And then there's completely like indie levels that where you can find your way maybe. And I work with a lot of Asian American artists who are young, who are just like, they quit their jobs like day jobs and then are doing art. It's amazing. Like there's actually a lot and it's at all levels. There's some who are killing it, and there are some who are just like struggling but making it so, you know, and they're young. So it's just yeah, it's it's at all levels. And I think that's really cool because I don't think that was there ten years ago. I don't think it was as easy or I don't want to say easy, but as possible. Let's look at it that way. And it's definitely tons of them are doing it. And I think that's that's very cool. And then Asian Americans, if you want to publish something that's a whole different subject. Michelle, we're both artists. What is some advice you would give to a young Asian American artist like yourself that you wish you knew? Nah, I'm not young, but you know, When you were young, I know. When you were young. Yeah, I if I were to tell myself when I was young, I would say it doesn't just apply for the artist. But I would say this to myself, like, you know, because I, I learned stuff when I play golf. Uh, rule number one, show up. Rule number two, it's not about the first shot or the second shot. It's about not giving up. Just keep on going. Putting the whole. You should do you should do, uh, motivational videos. Yeah. And number three, repeat. Nice. Yeah. That's what I tell them because it's. I think it's really true. And I don't know, sometimes. Yes. Being Asian American female tough. But sometimes it's just it could be, you know, me just working towards that goal. Yeah. I mean that's great advice. I mean, the one advice I always give writers is that you should spend less time talking about being a writer and more time writing. So it's a similar, you know, you just have to do it and that, you know that, that it's always really the first word that you write is always nerve wracking. Like every script I've written, I've written, you know, hundreds of scripts by now. And the first time I had to write a script, the first time I started writing a script, it's always scary, you know, no matter how many times I've written it. And so I think you have to be brave, you know? And it doesn't really matter what that first word is, because you could rewrite it any time later. So I think that that's really, really great advice. Any other advice you would have for artists? I don't know, just yeah, like you said, like practice, practice, practice. Don't go into comedy. Don't go. Yeah. Don't go. If you want to be rich, don't go to college. True, right? Yeah. Comedy is really, really, really difficult. But at least for comedy, I would say, is that the AI revolution will not hit comedy as quickly as screenwriting, for example. So you have at least a career longer than me. I don't well, I don't know. You're much younger, so you have more life span left for you. But I think the ai is going to take over my job soon. So. I think there's always something that I can't do. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. We encourage you to come to JANM to check out the giant Robot Biennale five. Since 2007, JANM has partnered with Eric Nakamura, founder of Giant Robot, to produce the Giant Robot Biennale. I don't even know. I don't know if I say that right, but it's okay. A reoccurring art exhibition that highlights diverse creative work celebrating the ethos of giant robot. A staple of Asian American alternative pop culture and an influential brand encompassing pop art, skateboard, comic book, graphic arts and vinyl toy culture. We asked Eric to tell us about some of the artists in the show. Go see the JANM exhibition. It's it got extended to January 5th. The show happens because it's 30 years of giant robot. So it's a that kind of happens. And then we've done this exhibition while you were there even. But I think the last one was eight years ago. So it's the fifth iteration of this exhibition. And, you know, again, like, I think I've grown up a little more and I would say that there's a little more thought put into it. And I think as a result, this exhibition is maybe, what, half the size, but twice as good. I mean, just I think it being more thought out, I think all the, the like puzzle pieces of artists fit well and like Georgiko is amazing. It's a husband and wife team who paint. They painted like they painted internment camp art, you know, and they're doing it in their modern style or contemporary style. But yeah, they actually painted internment camp work. It's crazy. Like. That's amazing. I wouldn't think an artist would do it, but they wanted to do it. But yeah, they're a fun one. I work with James Jean, Felicia Chow, Yosuke Yamamoto is in it. Luke Chu, Taylor Lee like they're just a big group of Asian American artists. Mike Shinoda can't miss Mike Shinoda, right? He's in it. And of course, he's having a, I don't know, another another life for his band, Linkin Park. So it's just like all these things kind of come together at the same time. And then there's a lot of current, but then also like there's a big like, I would say a lot of the works have a looking back kind of a feel, and that's kind of what the giant robot 30 year thing is about. There's a little bit of like current, but then looking back, so thematically it all, everyone kind of does that, whether it's on purpose or not. I'm seeing a lot of it in their work. So that's how it all fits. It fits like a little bit of a narrative. We just walked through the Giant Robot show. What was your favorite art piece and why? Okay, I like Yosuke Yamamoto. I even like the way he spelled his name Yosuke. Not y o s k e I. No. That's not. Why not? Yosuke? No I cannot. Why? Yosuke. But Yosuke like. Yosuke. So cool. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. And the Moonage daydream. Okay. Yeah. I like the colors and it's like, nice. It's, like very dreamy. Why don't you describe it a little bit? It's a landscape. How do you say, like a landscape? Miniature buildings. And it also comes with a moon on the on the top. And it's blueish pastel color ish. It's really dreamy. I wish I had that space to put it in my house. And it's a sculpture, right? It's like a how do you call those? Like a 3D, uh, A miniature landscape. Yeah. Like a paper. It's made out of paper, right? I think it's made of maybe wood. Oh wood? Okay. Yeah. And at first I thought, is that the camp? Because it was like a because as camp was supposed to be a mile square. Yeah. And it's like square. So I'm like, how is that? But it was really dreamy. And, like, it's really soothing just to take a look at it. Did you have another one that you liked? I also like the one by, um, Mike Shinoda, and that's the one that says kawaii. The title was kawaii, but it wasn't that kawaii. What was it? What was it? It was like a fish. And. Yes. Like when you compare with the other pieces, it. I guess it's his kawaii. But in general it wasn't kawaii. Kawaii? Anything else you liked? Yeah. I also like Felicia Chao. Maybe in another life. And it's a lot of blue fish. Maybe. Is that a goldfish? But it's blue and there's a sun, and there's one yellow fish that's like looking at the sun. So maybe in another life it will be something else. Or other than fish, I don't know. It makes me feel like me, my life, like I maybe in another life. Are you going to come back as a fish? Um. Then you're gonna eat. I would, I would eat you for sure. Oh. For sushi? Yes. Um, I'll. I'll be a fat sushi. No, um, I don't know. I maybe I'll come back as a fish. Maybe come back. I want to come back as a dog. The dog. That's loved, though. Like a dog that's like pampered. I don't want to be like a street dog or something. Oh, yes. That sounds terrible. That's a tough life. Yeah. I want to be a dog. That's like my dog is pampered. Yeah, she gets a lot of love. So that's the dog I want to be. Oh, which one did you like? My favorite was by an artist named James Jean called Maze Saxon from 2001. It's made out of bronze and gold plated stainless steel. I'm just by the way. I'm just reading that thing so it doesn't. I don't really know it as well as I'm sounding, but I really, really like the writing of it. So I'm just going to read it to you because I really like the the description of it. So it says a girl is holding a stationary hoop that is constructed like a maze, its convoluted structure impossible to use. The image emerged from a series of paintings called kindling, which featured a range of characters engaged in different types of games. Though we privilege sophistication and complexity, in many instances, too much complexity can be paralyzing. I yearn for simplicity, but my hand always pulls me towards a convoluted path, so I like I really it really resonated with me because as everyone knows, my son is a baseball player. And just like in golf, one of the weird things about baseball is that the more you try to hit the ball, the worse it is. It's like comedy. Yeah, like you have to be natural. Like you have to just go with the flow and that the more complex you make things, the more you think about things, the more you try to make it perfect. Or in baseball. You try to hit a home run, the less it's going to be. And it's the same with my writing, is that when I write, if I'm trying to make a, you know, an Oscar winning movie or a movie that's going to make $1 billion in the box, usually it doesn't work. It's the movies that really the screenplays that make the most sense in terms of my writing are the ones that work the best, are the ones that just are natural. I'm letting the story go naturally. Yeah, I really like that too. It's like very simple. And the colors just whitish grayish color with the gold plate, hoop. Maze. It's like simple, but that the maze is casting the shadow and it's complex. Thank you, Eric Nakamura for your time and thank you all for listening. There are almost 4.5 million podcasts now. That's crazy. We're honored that you've chosen ours to listen to. And please consider writing a review of our show on the platform you use to listen to this podcast. We know it's a pain in the butt, but it does go a long way in helping the show. It helps us reach new listeners, grow our show, and most importantly, it enables us to keep putting out the content that we hope you enjoy. This podcast is a program in the Japanese American National Museum. The museum's mission is to promote understanding and appreciation of America's ethnic and cultural diversity by sharing the Japanese American experience. Please rate, review and subscribe to our podcast and be sure to join us next month! We talk about Japanese American veterans. Yay! Yay! Bye. Bye, guys. Thank you.