Yuri Kochiyama's Diary with Actor Sierra Katow

Explore the life and enduring legacy of Yuri Kochiyama, a Japanese American woman whose experiences during WWII in concentration camps ignited her transformation into a civil rights icon. In this podcast episode, hosts Koji Steven Sakai and Michelle Malizaki delve into the intimate thoughts and profound adversities captured in Yuri's diary. From tales of community resilience within the camps to discussions on identity and patriotism, this episode honors Kochiyama's empathetic activism and challenges us to reflect on the true meaning of citizenship. Join us in paying tribute to a beacon of the civil rights movement and the resilient spirit that defines the Japanese American experience. 

ABOUT OUR PERFORMER

Sierra is a standup comic, writer, and actor. She recently shot her first hourlong standup special with Comedy Dynamics and can be seen playing Evangeline on Mindy Kaling's The Sex Lives of College Girls on Max. In the past, she was part of the main cast of The G Word with Adam Conover on Netflix and voiced characters for Disney's Raya and the Last Dragon. She has also written for shows like Exploding Kittens (Netflix), Close Enough (Max), Earth To Ned (Disney+), and Eureka! (Disney+).

LINKS

https://www.nps.gov/people/yuri-kochiyama.htm 

JANM Online collection link for Yuri Kochiyama:

https://janm.emuseum.com/groups/yuri-kochiyama--mary-nakahara--collection/results

ABOUT US

Welcome to "Japanese America," where the Japanese American National Museum unveils captivating stories that add a Nikkei slant to the American narrative. In each episode, we explore the unique experiences, challenges, and triumphs of Japanese Americans, illuminating their rich contributions to the mosaic of American life. From historical milestones to contemporary perspectives, join us for an insightful journey through the curated collection of the Japanese American National Museum, showcasing the diverse tapestry of a community that has shaped the American story in extraordinary ways.  Welcome to "Japanese America," where each story unfolds like a chapter in a living history book.

For more information about the Japanese American National Museum, please visit our website at www.janm.org. 

CREDITS

The music was created by  Jalen Blank

Written by Koji Steven Sakai

Hosts: Michelle Malizaki and Koji Steven Sakai

Edited and Produced by Koji Steven Sakai in Conjunction with the Japanese American National Musem

Transcript

0:00

So, Michelle, are you an activist? No. What would have to happen for you to become one? Well, I don't know. I'm not really confrontational, but if something like bad, like, injustices happening in front of me, like to my people, my family, then I might become one. Welcome, welcome, welcome to episode number one of the brand new podcast Japanese America. My name is Koji Steven Sakai, and I am one of your hosts. And now Michelle Malizaki. And I'm the other host Michelle. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Well, I'm Michelle and I'm a mom. I'm a music artist and comedian from Japan. I live in America for 35 years and I'm a Japanese American. Koji, what about you? Why don't you tell us about yourself? I'm a screenwriter and producer. I am also a father. And my father and his family was incarcerated in camps during World War two. I'm sorry. Oh, it didn't happen to me. Just a quick note about this episode. We're going to be using the word concentration camps for what is generally been called internment camps. And the reason we use the concentration camps is because that's what they actually were to call what happened. Internment camps is a euphemism for what they really were. When the people who started the camps first started calling it, they did call it a concentration camp. And in no means do we mean disrespect to anything that happened in Europe. What happened in Europe were actually death camps, and they're much worse than concentration camps. We're committed to being historically accurate and not using euphemisms to make things sound better than they really were. So other euphemisms that people use are things like relocation, internment, evacuation. Those all make it sound really better than what they were. In reality, they were concentration camps. They were forcibly removed. They were incarcerations. Okay, back to our regular programming. This is where we look at all things Japanese American. We'll bring alive the history, culture and people that make up this diverse community. And in this first episode, we'll look at activist and mother Yuri Kochiyama and how the concentration camps transformed her into a civil rights icon. First, let's give a little background. Yuri was born on May 19th, 1921, in San Pedro, California. She was a Nisei, which means her parents were immigrants from Japan. Everything changed on December 7th, 1941, when Imperial Japan attacked the United States Naval Base in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Two months later, on February 19th, 1942, Executive Order 9066 was signed by President Franklin Roosevelt. Japanese Americans, many of whom were American citizens living along the West Coast, were forced to move from their homes. Their only crime was looking like the enemy. Many were moved to temporary facilities before being sent to permanent concentration camps located at more remote areas of the country. Yuri and her family were temporarily sent to the Santa Anita race tracks, before ultimately being sent to Jerome, Arkansas. Following the war, Yuri moved to Harlem with her husband, World War Two veteran William Bill Kochiyama, where her apartment became known as the Revolutionary Salon. According to a National Park Service article linked in the show notes, Kochiyama's apartment in Harlem became a crossroads for activists, artists and intellectuals. It was at one of these events at her apartment that Yuri invited Malcolm X to join. To her surprise, he actually came and he had a profound impact on her outlook and activism. I think I shared with you, Michelle, the, um, the Life magazine picture of Yuri Kochiyama on the cover, holding Malcolm X's head after he had been assassinated. Right. I remember as a kid when I saw that, you know, I wasn't obviously born around that time. Well, maybe not, obviously, because no one could see us, but. But I'm not that old. I remember seeing that as a kid later, much later, and wondering who that Asian woman was, why she was there, and why she was holding Malcolm X's head. And I remember thinking a lot about, you know, who this person was. And the more I found out about her, I remember thinking that this person was somebody I really looked up to. But when you saw that life magazine picture, what did you think? Until you mentioned about her? I didn't I only saw Malcolm X's head. And then I realized, oh my gosh, there is a Asian person and she's Japanese. I was like, oh my gosh. So I used to do, uh, women in history at the elementary school for my kids, and they asked me to be like, Princess Diana, whatever. And I am like, I can't. So I had to make my own list of Asian people for me to become. But I never knew Yuri Kochiyama. And like, what was I thinking until you show it to me? I had no idea there was a Japanese person holding Malcolm X's head. And you know, when I look at that picture, I wonder, how did she get there? How did she get from being like this regular Japanese American woman who grew up in San Pedro and eventually to be in New York, to be in the presence of somebody as as amazing as Malcolm X, and then to be at his assassination. And in between those dots, she was in a concentration camp. In this episode, we will be looking at Yuri's diary, which was donated to the Japanese American National Museum by Yuri herself in 1996. This chronicles her experience moving from her childhood home in San Pedro to the horse stalls in the San Anita Temporary Detention center to. Finally the Jerome concentration camp in Arkansas. The diary begins on April 3rd, 1942 and ends on October 18th, 1942. Yuri was only 21 years old. Michelle, should we get started? Yes. All right, let's go. To help us bring to life Yuri's diary. We invited Sierra Katow to read selected excerpts of some of the diary entries. Yuri begins her diary with this prologue. Daily diary of how I think and feel. But may I never put in writing that which would hurt, humiliate, look down, blame or show dislike for any person, nation, race, religion or station in life. The first entry dated April 3rd, 1942, she describes her new home in a Santa Anita horse stall. April 3rd Friday. It's 645. In the evening of the first night in camp, and I begin writing a day to day diary of the incidences, experiences and adventures in this bordered world. I feel in a rather serious mood. It's raining, and somehow the pitter pattering of the raindrops on the barracks seemed to make things seem a little dismal. Next door to us on one side, we can hear someone hammering away at something. On the other side, a little girl is singing. It all seems like a storybook. This new life and a new and very different environment. We're living in what used to be the horse stall. It's a large room divided by a partition in the center. There is a light in each section or room with windows on one side. Two collapsible cots are in each room. My mother and I are going to sleep in the section without the windows, while my brother is taking the other half. Yuri next talks about what happened earlier that day. It began with her helping clean her house and getting ready for the move. Her family had lunch, but she was too anxious to eat. Her friends from San Pedro came to see her off, which meant a lot to her. We pick up as Yuri and her family begin their trek to Santa Anita.

It was almost 1: 7:27

00. We were finally on our way, giving our hometown and the people we loved a last glance. Hundreds of curious onlookers and spectators were lined up along seventh Street. We turned on Pacific, the main street of our town, and proceeded in single file led by a jeep. What an interesting caravan it must have been. There were all sorts of cars, from model T Fords to 41 dodges and Buicks, plus pickups, trucks and a single trailer. As we descended Brick Hill, we realized it was our exit to a new life. Perhaps there were many that were saddened by the departure. Also those that were relieved. But as for myself, I couldn't really say I had any definite feelings. I was just tired. Yuri and other Japanese Americans were taken through the city of Los Angeles on their way. Yuri noted some of the reactions to her strange caravan. Curious onlookers, passer bys, workmen, housewife, school children would all stare at us as we went on our way. Several even waved goodbye. One little boy said, wish I had a machine gun. Yuri eventually makes it to Santa Anita, where she and others are checked in, their bags checked and so-called contraband confiscated. Yuri managed to convince the person checking her bag to keep her ambulance corps uniform. Let's hear a thought on her new home. I thought it was pretty good, but it seemed as though many of the people were quite disappointed. My mother complained it smelled like horses were still living in it. A little girl in the next apartment rushed out of her place and exclaimed, mom, I never saw a house like this before! A young high school boy said, I'm going to go home. A woman in the next home almost cried. Michelle, when you hear all of this, what are some of your initial thoughts? Oh my gosh, I really hated that part. That the little boy saying that he wished he had a machine gun watching people going to are, gosh, it's awful. And and yet, Yuri, she just wrote it down in her diary. Like I could understand that. Like what? Yeah. I mean, that's what really I mean, amazing about some of these things was that she's so positive. She's Very positive. Like, everything is like. Well, yeah, some boy tried to shoot me with or was pretending to shoot me with a machine gun. And it's very matter of fact, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, it's very weird. I thought it was very weird. And because I've heard about concentration camps before from other people from who's been there and they all have like, terrible things to say. But yet Yuri's diary tells me different story. Well, actually One of the really interesting things about the camps is that I think that people's perspective on how they look at life really colors how they remember a camp. So like I said, I worked here for a long time, and when I've talked to some volunteers, they tell me it's the worst thing that's ever happened to them. Every moment there's nothing good. And then you talk to other people who've told me that, you know, they remember things that were good, like they had fun at, you know, doing this, that a dance or something, or they got to talk to their parents, you know. So it's really interesting. And to me it talks a lot about mindset, mind frame and how you let it affect you. Because I've had people tell me it's the worst thing that's ever happened and that it hurt them for the rest of their lives. And then I've heard other people tell me it's obviously it's bad. Nobody thinks it's good, but that it didn't stop them. And in fact, for some people, it actually made them do other things. Like there's a famous story of a cartoonist who was going to be working in a farm for the rest of their life, but then went to camp and then realized that, no, I have to do what I want to do. I have to do what I think is amazing. Yeah, I met George Takei, and he went to that camp as a little kid, and he moved on and become the one of the best Asian actor. Yeah, he was on Star Trek. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you were moved from your house to a horse stall, how would that make you feel? First of all, you have to pack everything. And pack everything. Is that 24 hours? Well, I think it depended on on where you were some places. Yeah. Had very short amount of time then had some people, some places had more than a couple like a couple of weeks and stuff. But yeah you had to pack everything. Okay. We have fire in my area and we had to evacuate in four hours. I got five socks. But that's all you brought? Yeah, I Had five socks and a cat and a dog and kids. Okay. And like, okay, what am I going to do with the fifth sock? And then I knew I was able to go back. Yeah. But for these people they can't go back. Yeah. And they don't know how long. You know, they'll be at the camp. I mean, I, I just can't imagine. And you had to get rid of everything. Yeah. Or sell it. Or. Sell it. Or do something. Give it to someone. Or abandon it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, as a father, things are different. When I was Yuri's age or when I was older. It's just me. I think it would be easier. But the moment you own a house and then you get all the crap that you have in a house, and then you have kids and you have to worry about their kids. And I mean, that's that's becomes a lot harder to, I think, to move and to to pack everything that you own and then move into a horse stall. I mean, what do you think? What do you think about learning about having people live in horse stalls? That's so wrong. But then. Yet, Yuri, it sounded like she's having a. Vacation almost. I mean, I shouldn't say that maybe, but, like, it seems so positive coming from her diary. I think that's what was amazing about this early part of her diary was how positive she was. And, you know, obviously these are like, you know, these are terrible things that have happened. I mean, I don't think we talked about this, but her father was taken. Oh, yes, Right after Pearl Harbor. And he was essentially missing from their lives. And they didn't know where he was. And yet when you listen to these, these words and read her words, you you wouldn't even notice. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Her dad was taken somewhere and then he returned home. And then the next day, well, he was supposed to be in the hospital, but the next day he passed away. Yeah. And she doesn't mention about him. And she must be a really strong person. That's what I guess I see. And also, she's so compassionate. She cares about others so much. Yes. Not selfish person like me. One of the most noteworthy parts of the diary is that insight to what life was actually like in Santa Anita. Here are some experts that we thought were particularly interesting. April 3rd Friday. It was very dark outside. The ground was wet and muddy. After groping through the darkness and slush, I found the restroom about a block away. I was glad no one was there as there is so little privacy, if any, with no doors. It's quite embarrassing. June 15th. Monday seems like more ghost stories have been spreading around in camp. The newest is that a supposed ghost was stalking near the blue mess hall. Seems so childish for people to believe such tales and yet amazing how many actually do take it in. July 4th. Saturday. Another big day. Track meet. Wrestling. Boxing. Judo. Gymnastics. Baseball and softball. Quite an extensive sports program with big turnouts for each event an affair Santa Anita evacuees will long remember. At night, the big dance. Hundreds of couples and still a greater number of stags all joining together in response to the Fanita 4th of July celebration. In that same July 4th entry, Yuri mentions a boy that she thought was cute and it reminded me that she was still only 21 years old. Rocky was there too. And yes, he's a good dancer. Bean Takeda was there too. Kept looking at him, but don't think he'd remember me anyways. Koji, what stands out to you about these? One thing that stands out to me is something that I've always admired about the Japanese American community, and the Japanese Americans that were going through that situation was that a lot of these people made the best of a bad situation. You know, obviously they've lost their home, they've lost other their possessions, they've lost their freedoms, but they still try to make a community. Right. They had dances, they had baseball, they had all these different things. And that's one of the things that I take away from, from this whole reading of the diary and just from the whole experience is that even though they locked up the community, they were still made a community. And that's what really, really shone through in, in her diary to me. What about you? What did you think. It sounded like? There are more of a Japanese community then Yuri knows all the Japanese people from different communities. She's like, oh, that's somebody, somebody from Rancho Penasquitos. Maybe not Rancho Penasquitos, but like, um, oh, she's somebody, somebody from Cheviot Hills or like, that's amazing because they didn't have a cell phone. Like, how does she know everybody? Did you know That they had all these things going on in the camps? Yeah. I did not know. Like dances. Like what? That is so American because growing up in Japan, we don't we have bon dance, but not dance. Dance like boys and girls. No no no no no. So that's very American. Yeah, Yeah. And then she also spot some boys who look more Caucasian than Japanese. Hapa. Yeah. Hapa. And but they were there because they got Japanese blood. If you have any blood, you're you're in the camp. Well, what was kind of neat for me, one of the other things was that she was looking at the guy. Rocky, I guess. Or. No, it was a Bean or rocky one of those two, anyway, that she couldn't just go talk to him because it's a different time period, right? Like girls didn't go up to boys and just start talking and asking him to dances. That was a that was a different thing because now, I mean, if I had a daughter, I don't have a daughter, but if I had a daughter, I'd be like, just go talk to him. Why do you have to stare at him from far away? But back then it was just different. But I also like that Yuri and her friends made all kind of cheers. Yeah, Yeah. And with the hit songs from the 40s. Yeah. What struck me most from Yuri's diary is her mindset at the start of her incarceration, how it evolved from the beginning to the end. Here are some excerpts that we thought showed her mindset in the beginning and how it evolved. May 12th Tuesday. I'm slowly coming to understand the problems of the Japanese people problems. I never gave much thought to the evacuations in itself and all the problems and conflicts that go with it. The positions many were resigned to give up the paycheck that is no longer there, the property and homes that had to be sold at such disadvantaged costs, the unfair dealings by those who were prejudiced, the plans and hopes that are now shattered, the loss of faith and other people. The darkness of the future. To look forward to the broken homes that were accounted for, the equality with other people and the freedoms that are now limited. And yet I still believe it isn't what happens to you, it's what happens within you. Sorrow and happiness. Disappointment and success falls on everyone. It's how did you take it? May 13th. Wednesday. I never gave much thought to the Japanese people. I never thought of myself as being part of a nation so prejudiced. I never gave much thought to that word nationality, or thought of people according to their race. But just that they were individuals. I want to keep thinking that way that we're all Americans here. If we feel it in our hearts that we're also individuals, not representative of any nationalities traits, but representative of our own personality. July 20th Monday. This is my country and it'll always be my country no matter what happens. Most likely, I'll be hated by the Japanese for thinking the way I do, and prejudiced and looked down on by the Americans because of my race. But so what? As long as I can refrain from ever hating anyone else, then the fight for my way of life was worth it. September 9th. Wednesday. Could hardly believe that public sentiment could be so strong against the Japanese Americans. But not until I myself actually come up against prejudice and discrimination will I really understand the problems of the Nisei. When that time comes, I hope I can take it without blaming anyone else, or whining, and hope I can still cling to the ideals I once set before me and deep within still feel that I'm as American. What's particularly interesting about the last September 9th entry is that Yuri includes 14 rejection letters that she was given from a friend who was trying to go to nursing school outside of Santa Anita. Here are two examples of these letters. For Saint Anthony Hospital, Denver, Colorado. While we realize that there are loyal American Japanese, we do not believe that it would be good policy to admit them to our school of nursing and so on. Seven Trinity Hospital, Jamestown, North Dakota. I have given your application considerable thought, and it seems to me you might find a good deal of opposition from patients who are incensed at the Japanese for their attack upon the US. And while you state that you are 100% American, yet there are those who do not hesitate to insult you and refuse to allow you to care for them just on that principle. In the third To last entry in the journal, we see Yuri's mind changing. September 11th Friday. Yes, it's time that the Japanese people from the time they came here have had raw deals, one after the other. And it's true. They've tried to find for equality and chances for good positions, but lost out because of racial prejudice. Yet the Issei sought to it that their children would be educated. Sacrifices meant nothing to them and thus their. The span of 20 and 30 years, the majority of nieces have received more than just high school educations. They've made good grades in school. Their standards have been high. Yet what happened when they went into the outside world? Racial prejudice and discrimination told them that the school world and the work world were two different hemispheres, that what Caucasian teachers tried to instill in every student was only meant for the Caucasians, that the Black and Orientals would be looked down upon, that obstacles would be many. And how natural, then, that bitterness seeped into the hearts of the great percentage of Nisei long before the war broke out. Yet, just as Maruyama said, the Nisei love and loyalty, in spite of what their parents and themselves have gone through, rests in the heart of America. Deep within, below the bitterness and the hurt, lies hope and faith in the America that is theirs. As I listened to her, I'm sure something gripped me and touched me in such a way that I feel I want to fight shoulder to shoulder with every Nisei for the right to the same opportunities as the Caucasians. I can't do much, but I can do the little thing in my capacity to help and build what has been torn from them. That's a lot, Michelle. Do you see the beginning of the Activist? Yuri is going to become? Yeah, I mean, I see already had that character very compassionate. She always thinking about other people. And I could see she's really becoming an activist. In the beginning. She's very American and she's very trusting. And she believes, I think, that the government is doing the best. And I feel by the end of the camp and, sorry, end of Santa Anita part of the camp, she seems to have changed a little. I mean, did you get that sense, too? In what way? I don't like she's she's seeing like injustice done to people around her that she cares about. And I think that really set her to become an activist. Yeah. What's weird is that the injustice was literally happening to her. But what was interesting to me was that she saw these injustices happening to other people, like the nurse, you know, the nurse letters. And that's why she included in her in her diary. And it was weird that she had to include that, like it wasn't just the bad enough that she lost her home that her father essentially got was killed or, you know, and that she lost everything. And she had to move to Santa Anita in a horse stall. But none of that really changed her. But then seeing like her friends and seeing what was happening to them and what was happening at the nursing station and, you know, one, one story that I wanted to bring up that that we don't mention here because it just wasn't enough time. But World War One veteran, do you remember that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where a guy, an older gentleman was in was in the hospital and she was a nurse, and, you know, no one was there for him because he was all alone. I think he was from England even. Right. Or I mean, he was Japanese. He moved to England and then he moved to the United States. And he was a World War veteran and one veteran. And it really struck her that no one was there, even though he had fought for this country, and that that was something that I thought was really, really powerful. You know, I hate I hate wars, of course, but like, I mean, when the war is happening, yes, there's an enemy, but it's not that person who is from that country who is bad. I don't know how to put that together, but. No, no, it makes sense. I mean, the Constitution doesn't say if you're if you look like the person who bombed you, then you have no rights, right? Yeah. Yuri was an American citizen. Yeah, she was a Nisei, right. So she's an American citizen. So you're taught in school that if you're an American citizen, you get all the rights of being an American. Yeah. She was. I mean, yeah, she was born here and everything. And also Hawaii was like a, um. How do you call those the, uh, Territory? Yeah. Hawaii was the territory of the United States, but it wasn't the United States. So, like. If you bomb a territory, it's still a bombing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I Know, but I mean, are there's other I don't know, I don't want to go too, too deep on this. But like, there are some, you know, famous occasion bombing happened on the land of America and like, was anybody been to concentration camp because of that? To be clear, there were Germans and Italians who were incarcerated during World War two, but they were they had either expressed, um, disloyalty or they were suspected disloyalty. What the big difference here was that in Japanese Americans was all Japanese Americans living on the West Coast, like somebody like my grandfather. My grandfather worked for the Japanese consulate in Honolulu. He was going to be arrested no matter what, right, because he just he was a Nisei, but he was still going to be arrested no matter what. But Yuri is a 21 year old in San Pedro, California. Nothing to do with government, nothing to do with Japan, nothing to do with Pearl Harbor like that. Doesn't make any sense, right? That's that's the part. That's the Tragedy. Yeah, but yet She's still, like, compassionate about other people. Not to herself. That's so amazing. Yeah. She reincarnated and reincarnated many times before she become her, I don't know, born Again, born again, born again. I mean, one of the big changes I saw in her from the diary was that in the beginning, I felt she was a little naive, you know, I don't know. I mean, all I have is the diary and all I know is about her at the end, but it just felt like she didn't know a lot about the world. And, you know, it was felt very much like like when she was pro kind of government and pro what's going on. And she and to be clear, she was never okay with the incarceration, I don't think I'm not saying that by any means, but I think she was just kind of like, well, they must know something. They must think that we it's good for us. And I think at the end, I think just by being going through it, she became more mature. Um, she had a job, right? She was. She was a nurse assistant. It right. And she I think seeing kind of death and birth and everything in between and living in the camps and, you know, doing all these things, I think it really it matured her and she started seeing the things and seeing injustices in ways that, that she hadn't seen before. And to go back to, you know, what we talked about earlier, which is the the mindset, you know, um, had she not gone through this experience, I don't think she would have. Become. And true, true. And also, like, I think her seeing like living and death at the hospital, that really helped her mature more. Yeah. She had a Job, right? I mean, probably I think this was her first job. This sounded like I mean, I don't know for a fact, but it sounded like her first job. So it sounded like this was really her first time being an adult. And that probably has something to do with why she kind of changed over the course of the the diary. Is there anything else you wanted to say about the diary? Oh my gosh, I love notebooks. You work in a notebook place. I Know, I know, and I'm like, oh my gosh, how this is amazing. Because, um, diary was well kept. Yes. Because, you know, I thought the paper might be like bad, um, might like, might be eaten by moth or something, but it's, it looks so, you know, pristine. And I think she used fountain pen. I was like, oh my gosh, I love I love stationery. Was was there anything else. No. I don't know. Like the handwriting is so neat and oh my gosh, I don't think I'm going to be an activist or anything, but I'm going to burn my diary before I die. Why? Because I'm not like her. I'm like, all my every entry is a little bit too selfish. Yeah, I mean, that's something that we should mention, you know, I mean, this diary wasn't for publication. So when we read her thoughts, we're just reading somebody's thoughts that didn't expect it to be read. And I do think that that's a that's an important consideration when you're looking at it. You know that to me it feels as a writer, right? It feels a little bit more honest. Even as a writer. I know that if I'm writing for publication, I'm going to write differently than if I'm writing for myself. When I read her words, it felt truer. It felt like I had a better sense of what was going on in camp. You know, one of the problems with studying about the concentration camps or or talking to people who are in the camps 50 years later, is that everything gets colored right in terms of like how you remember what you remember. And also, I think she edited some of the words, Yes, Maybe like the day after. Also, it seems like she. Like she crossed it out. Yeah. She crossed it out and put a better word or two. And I like that. Like, ah, she's a good writer. Actually. The other thing I was going to mention was one of my favorite parts was that she would be mean about something, and then the next day she'd apologize about being mean or depressing about something. And I thought that was really cute, that she was so worried about how she came off. Yeah, other people's Feelings. Even in a diary which nobody was going to read, which is very Japanese. Yeah. Every episode. We need to do something fun. Let's talk about food in camp, so I'll go first. When I used to talk to my father about camp, all he would ever say to me was like, camp food was bad and that's all he would say. Like, that's like literally the only memory he had of camp was that the food was bad. Well, I think he remembers the day that fish was served. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't santa anita, but yeah, he just Remembers all. Because Yuri's diary mentioned about the fish that was served. And the next day. Everyone was sick. Not even, not even next day, like during the night, people are like, going in and out to the bathroom and hear the moaning because of the thin walls. It was Interesting that they also talk about they had a steak dinner one Night. And a Steak dinner and then like, oh, and then Yuri says there's a Japanese dinner served. And I don't think none of those things were Japanese, like mashed potatoes. I don't I don't know exactly, but like, oh, she's like older people. Is going to love these food. Or older people must have enjoyed that dinner that night because they were Japanese and I can't remember exactly what it was, but I don't think they were Japanese. Japanese. Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, Japanese American food is not is not super Japanese in general. Like, she's Like, oh, soy sauce was there. So that made everything taste Japanese, I guess. I don't know. Because all the Japanese tourists that come to America, they always bring like little packages of soy sauce. They do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they put it on steaks and everything. So it sounds like home. That's like my, my relatives, when they come from Japan, all they want to eat is Japanese food. Japanese. Yeah. And I'm like, why do you come from Japan and eat. Come here and eat Japanese food. That's like me going to Japan and only McDonald's or. McDonald's. Like, why do I? I'm going to Japan. I'm gonna eat good food. I don't want to eat McDonald's or Denny's or something. Oh, but. Japanese Denny's are good. I know, I'm just joking. I mean, like Yoshinoya. Yoshinoya. In Japan is way better than here. Yeah, yeah, Here is. I mean. Here is. Okay, but. You're being so nice. Oh, Okay. Was there anything else in the food that you wanted to talk about? Yes. That steaks like. Wow. I mean, I don't know, like because my dad was growing up in Japan during that time and I don't think they were having steaks at home. No. Probably not. No. Yeah. Yeah. My, um, I don't know, it sounds, I mean, ah, war is terrible, but, um, that food sounded really nice. I think she. Made it sound better. I mean, mostly from the people I've ever spoken to. They they remember it being pretty terrible. I mean, even I remember one, one person telling me that they made curry a lot. Curry because it would mask the the bad meat, right. Or the meat that wasn't super great. So, you know, things like that they could do. So, you know, I think that there's I think that Yuri was being positive. I mean, they probably did have steak. I mean, obviously they did have steak, but, you know, the fish was probably more common or, you know, where they're doing. Not so good. Thank you Sierra for your wonderful reading and all of you for listening. There are almost 3 million podcasts, and we are honored that you've chosen ours to listen to. This podcast is a program of the Japanese American National Museum. The mission of the museum is to promote understanding and appreciation of America's ethnic and cultural diversity by sharing the Japanese American experience. For more information about Jamn's Online Collections page linked to this show notes. Be sure to join us next month where we'll talk about The Karate Kid. That sounds super fun. Bye. Bye.